The nearest we came to a debate…

Back in October, 2006 a debate was set to take place between James White and Ergun Caner on the subject of Calvinism. Sadly, the debate never happened because the Caner side tried to change the rules of the debate just days before the event. However, the nearest we came to a debate was this Dividing Line program where a sermon by Ergum Caner was played and James White responded.

Lane Chaplin has done a masterful job in producing this video and deserves much credit for the result. I believe it is a very useful exchange.

Miscellaneous Quotes (23)

“When circumstances seem impossible, when all signs of grace in you seem at their lowest ebb, when temptation is fiercest, when love and joy and hope seem well nigh extinguished in your heart, then rest, without feeling and without emotion, in the Father’s faithfulness; abide in the fact that He loves you infinitely, and even now is working in you faithfully; and honor Him, and put the enemy to flight by taking to yourself the words of Job, “Though He slay me, yet will I trust in Him.” – D. Tryon

“So long as men are in prosperity, and have their leaves on, they do not see what nests of sins and lust are in their hearts and lives; but when all their leaves are off, in the day of their affliction, then they see them and say, I did not think I had such nests of sin and lusts in my soul… ‘Before I was afflicted I went astray,’ says David, Psa 119:67. And Job 36:10, ‘He openeth also their ear to discipline, and commandeth that they return from iniquity.’ Yea, these afflictions and sufferings of the saints not only reveal and heal their sins, but also put them upon the excerse of grace: ‘In their affliction (says God) they will seek me early,’ Hosea 5:15. Yea, they not only draw out their graces but reveal their graces too, which possibly they never too notice of before.” – William Bridge, “A Lifting Up for the Downcast”

“The only opportunity you will ever have to live by faith is in the circumstances you are provided this very day: this house you live in, this family you find yourself in, this job you have been given, the weather conditions that prevail at the moment.” Eugene Peterson

“I preached as never sure to preach again, and as a dying man to dying men.” – Richard Baxter

“The very thing that you think was designed to destroy you, could actually be God’s tool to heal you and make you whole.”

“The grace of God does not find men fit for salvation, but makes them so.” – Augustine

“Christ is so in love with holiness, that at the price of his blood he will buy it for us.” — John Flavel

“The work which His goodness began, the arm of His strength will complete.” – Augustus Toplady

“To say “Never mind doctrine, let’s get on with evangelism,” is as ridiculous as a football team saying, “Never mind about a ball, let’s get on with the game.” — Peter Lewis

J.I. Packer, from “The Heart of the Gospel” in Knowing God (also in In My Place Condemned He Stood, p. 32): Has the word propitiation any place in your Christianity? In the faith of the New Testament it is central. The love of God [1 John 4:8-10], the taking of human form by the Son [Heb. 2:17], the meaning of the cross [Rom. 3:21-26], Christ’s heavenly intercession [1 John 2:1-2], the way of salvation—all are to be explained in terms of it, as the passages quoted show, and any explanation from which the thought of propitiation is missing will be incomplete, and indeed actually misleading, by New Testament standards.

In saying this, we swim against the stream of much modern teaching and condemn at a stroke the views of a great number of distinguished church leaders today, but we cannot help that. Paul wrote, “Even if we or an angel from heaven”—let alone a minister, a bishop, college lecturer, university professor, or noted author—”should preach a gospel other than the one we preached to you, let him be eternally condemned!” (“accursed” KJV and RSV; “outcast” NEB; “damned” Phillips—Gal. 1:8). And a gospel without propitiation at is heart is another gospel than that which Paul preached. The implications of this must not be evaded.

Packer approvingly quotes John Murray’s explanation of propitiation:

“The doctrine of propitiation is precisely this: that God loved the objects of His wrath (the world) so much that He gave His own Son to the end that He by His blood should make provision for the removal of His wrath. It was Christ’s so to deal with the wrath that the loved would no longer be the objects of wrath, and love would achieve its aim of making the children of wrath the children of God’s good pleasure.” — John Murray, The Atonement (Philadelphia: P&R, 1962), p.

“The first rule of holes: When you’re in one, stop digging.” – Molly Ivins

“When God calls a man, He does not repent of it. God does not, as many friends do, love one day and hate another; or as princes, who make their subjects favourites and afterwards throw them into prison. This is the blessedness of a saint; his condition admits of no alteration. God’s call is founded upon His decree, and His decree is immutable. Acts of grace cannot be reversed. God blots out His people’s sins, but not their names.” – Thomas Watson

“No one preaches the whole counsel of God who is a man-pleaser.” – R.C. Sproul

“Longing desire prayeth always, though the tongue be silent. If thou art ever longing, thou art ever praying.” – Augustine

“We are fallen enough to even have a clear conscience and still be wrong.” – Mark Dever

“The prayer which moves the arm of God is still a sinful prayer, and only moves that arm because the Sinless One, the great Mediator, has stepped in to take away the sin of our supplication.” – C. H. Spurgeon

“The obedience of the life of Christ was for us, is imputed to us, and is our righteousness before God; – by His obedience are we “made righteous,” Rom.5:19 – John Owen

“The universe is far too big to be made for man alone. It is just the right size, however, to be made to manifest the glory of God.” – R.C. Sproul, Jr

“If your knowledge of doctrine does not make you a great man of prayer, you had better examine yourself again.” — Martyn Lloyd-Jones

Particular Redemption

Roger Nicole wrote a very helpful book entitled, Our Sovereign Savior, in which he explains the essence of the Reformed Faith. Chapter 5 is about the subject of “Particular Redemption.” Here are a few of the excellent points Roger Nicole made:

•When it comes to the debate surrounding “limited atonement” the value of the death of Christ is not in question. There are no limits to the value of Christ’s death: it is sufficient to save anyone and everyone who trusts in Christ.

•The death of Christ blesses everyone in human history and creation at large. There is no limit to the extent of these blessings which are often referred to as “common grace.”

•If a person doesn’t believe that the atonement of Christ is limited only to effectually saving the elect then a that person is only left with one theological option: universal salvation of all people.

•The real issue is the design or intent of the Father when he sent his Son to die on the cross and purchase redemption for sinners. Since all sinners do not get saved then there is either a limit in the effectiveness of the atonement or a limit in its intent. Was God doing something to save all sinners and failed? Or was God purchasing the salvation of the elect and succeeded? Historical, orthodox Christianity teaches that God had a limited intent designed for the atonement of Christ: Christ was to die for and purchase and secure the salvation of the elect. The Cross was absolutely successful in accomplishing the particular intent for which it was designed.

•Lorraine Boettner compared this matter to two bridges: (1) one is a narrow bridge that goes all the way across the water, and (2) the other is a very wide bridge that doesn’t go all the way across the water. What good is the second bridge? It is as good as a theology that teaches the atonement was for all sinners but didn’t actually save any.

•The term “redemption” refers to the payment of the full price to purchase a sinners salvation. If the atonement didn’t actually pay the full price and didn’t actually redeem sinners then what good is it?

•The term “propitiation” refers to the atonements satisfying effects upon God’s wrath. If the death of Christ was a propitiation for all sinners then why is God still angry with sinners?

•The term “reconciliation” refers to the healing of a relationship. Since sinners are still considered enemies of God then what good was the atonement?

•The Bible teaches that Jesus Christ died as a substitute for sinners upon the cross, suffering the wrath of God on their behalf. Biblical theology refers to this as the “penal, substitutionary atonement” and “federal headship.” Federal headship refers to the fact that Christ lived and died as our representative before God.

•The doctrine of “universal atonement” teaches that the death of Christ was for everyone but didn’t actually save anyone. Therefore “universal atonement” completely undermines the biblical definitions of redemption, propitiation, reconciliation, substitution, and federal representation.

•Universal Atonement proponents are forced to defend the concept of the Father electing some sinners; but Jesus wanted to die for all sinners; but the Holy Spirit sides with the Father and against the Son and only saves some sinners.

•May no one ever think that definite atonement prevents anybody from coming, harms anyone or takes from anybody anything that belongs to him or her. On the contrary, definite atonement is a doctrine which shows a finished, accomplished salvation.

HT: Jason Robertson