Letter to a Charismatic Friend

A friend of mine whom I will call Malcolm (not his real name) wrote to me this week. He recently moved to Redding California to be part of Bill Johnson’s church there. He writes:

I haven’t purchased a digital recorder yet so I’m an sending these God moments to you via email. This is what happened today – Saturday July 2nd, 2011.

Caroline (not her real name) and I went to the Healing Rooms at Bethel Church here in Redding California this morning. Caroline has been having some pain in her knee joints as well as some other issues in her body. I didn’t go for prayer myself, i just wanted to be there to be in the soaking room. This room is filled with the loving fragrance of God. People are dancing, praying, singing and worshiping God to come into His presence. It is such a wonderful place to be it is easy to get caught up in the Spirit as he moves among his people. My goal was to be in that presence this morning because I just wanted to look God straight in the eyes and tell him I love him. I didn’t really know what to expect but I did go there with an anticipation of having a refreshing encounter with him some how.

I was sitting in a chair rocking back and forth just soaking in the moment when two ladies started dancing in front of me. These were worshipful dances, I sensed it was an expression of their love for God. As I was watching them I asked God if the people in heaven dance the same way or is the motion and movement more elevated than what I was seeing. Right then I saw myself standing in a park like setting. I don’t know what was behind me but before me I saw hundreds of people in what looked like a park It was somewhat bowl shaped. There were a lot of kids dancing and laughing and just having a wonderful time. I saw older people joining them, it almost looked like Gypsy’s dancing as they moved in and out of the people around them. Their movements were smooth and precise and very fast. There was so much laughter. I stepped forward to join them and then I was no longer watching myself but I was seeing what was going on from the perspective of being in the flow of people. The music was very worshipful. As I danced through the people I moved on to another group also dancing but not to the same music as the first group. It appeared as though they were doing a two step country jig. Although the music was different it did not clash with the other dancers or the music they were dancing to. I asked what was going on and I herd someone say that the first group were worshiping God in their dance and the second group was declaring his power and authority in their dance. There also appeared to be more men in this group than women. The first group there were more children, then women then men. I hope that makes sense. As I was watching these worshipers in the expressive dances I looked further away into the park and could see an elevated patio off in the distance. It was large about half the size of a football field actually a little smaller. It was elevated four steps higher than the grass area and there were large columns on it but no solid roof over it. It all looked like a white polished stone. It had the appearance of fogged glass. I walked up the steps and to my right stood a very large angel. As my son Brian would say when he was six years old, “he was a dark man”. He looked like a warrior, maybe 8 ft. tall and well over 400 lbs. I’m not sure how I know this its just a guess.

I walked up to him and he just stood there looking straight ahead. I asked him if he ever smiled and he looked down at me and did so. I looked over to where all the people were dancing and celebrating and I asked him if he could dance. He started moving around like a ballerina. He was very graceful and light on his feet and smoooth. As he danced around more angels appeared. I don’t know where they came from they were just there and they were all watching. They had long hair, some with blond hair others brown hair and still others with black they too looked like warriors. Some of them had braided hair. Their skin color was not all the same but the majority of them appeared to be Caucasian. One stood out cause he looked like the movie character Thore. Then the angel dancing stopped and the others stepped forward and started dancing with power and authority, it was as if they were declaring something or telling a story. It didn’t last very long cause Jesus showed up. He was standing in the middle of them and then they all stepped back to give him some room and he looked at me. I just stared at his face. I walked up to him and said “once you asked me to dance with you and I told you I didn’t want to dance and you replied that you wanted to and so you took my hand and we just started dancing, well would you dance with me now?” And like someone on Dancing With the Stars we just started doing what looked like a Waltz. He took my hands and we just started sweeping around this patio, we looked good. It didn’t seem to last very long, when we were done we just stood silent for a moment then he pulled my head into his chest and just held onto me and loved on me the way a dad does who never wants to let his child go. I buried my face into his chest and just cried. I was so overwhelmed by his love for me. He didn’t have to say a word yet he spoke thousands to me. I just kept saying thank you over and over to him and then it was over. I opened my eyes and I was back at the Healing Rooms with a bunch of people loving on God and getting healed among other things. Several people started standing up declaring that they received their healing and no one had even prayed for them yet.

This is what happened today, it was a good day….Malcolm

I waited a few days to gather my thoughts and pray and wrote the following to him this morning.

Hi Malcolm and Caroline,

Many thanks for the updates. It is always great to hear from you. I think you are a terrific guy Malcolm – always have. Caroline is amazing too – but you already know that. Actually in what I can discern of my heart it is love that prompts me to write this now. That is because I do have genuine concern.

My concern is about where you, places like the IHOP and the Redding Church seem to be going spiritually. I dont attend of course, this is only an observation from a huge distance away. But the e-mail you sent does seem to be a pattern. Please let me explain.

As I understand it – a good day in the church for the people of God is when God is worshiped in reverence, the Gospel is presented clearly, the word of God is read to the people and the saints are edified because the Word is exposited, right interpretation takes place that is then applied to all of life. This last Sunday we had a good day at our Church.

I am not sure that is enough for people in these venues. Actually I feel sure it is not. They want something much more dramatic – visions, dreams, experiences, out of body experiences, gold dust, sights of angels.. and on and on we go. I think that is dangerous… VERY dangerous. I am convinced that these poor people would be bored to tears if the Apostle Paul himself left heaven and started teaching Romans in their pulpits.. yawns would emerge from the crowd within minutes.

Yet his charge for ministers remains – 2 Tim 4:1 – I charge you in the presence of God and of Christ Jesus, who is to judge the living and the dead, and by his appearing and his kingdom: 2 preach the word; be ready in season and out of season; reprove, rebuke, and exhort, with complete patience and teaching. 3 For the time is coming when people will not endure sound teaching, but having itching ears they will accumulate for themselves teachers to suit their own passions, 4 and will turn away from listening to the truth and wander off into myths. 5 As for you, always be sober-minded, endure suffering, do the work of an evangelist, fulfill your ministry.

I read through your update you sent me Malcolm and as interesting as it is, I dont see anything of the Gospel. There is no word of God expounded. Its just your experience.

… would you be gracious enough to watch a couple of very short videos which highlight my concerns.. Would you do that for me?

(1) From an IHOP church – http://slaughteringthesheep.wordpress.com/2011/06/28/unholy-manifestations-at-ihop/

(2) Jenn Johnson from your church in Redding – http://slaughteringthesheep.wordpress.com/2011/06/13/this-is-sound-doctrine/

Now I dont know if either of these videos are typical or representative of the sort of ministry and emphasis at your church.. I make no accusations at all.. I just believe our safety is in the God breathed Scriptures and not the slippery and dangerous slope of experience.

I just want to alert you as to my concern.

Your friend always and because I care,

John

The Altar Call – Is it Biblical? (2)

Lane Chaplin writes, Charles Grandison Finney. Maybe even more noteworthy is the fact that Finney, just before he died, renounced the very methods that he once founded and used and which many use today…”

There are REAL DANGERS in using these methods. This video is well worth the time investment it takes to view it. My prayer is that all ministers of the Gospel would become aware of the issues here.

Does God Ever Change His Mind?

Pastor John, I have a theological question for you. What would you say to someone (who was an Arminian) if you were having a discussion with them about the sovereignty of God in salvation and they stated that God does in fact change His mind (Exodus 32:14 is an example)?

That is a very good question. Nowadays people like to have instant sound bite size answers to their questions, but that is not always possible. On this issue, it is important to lay the groundwork to provide a satisfactory, biblical answer and to do that necessitates serious study and application of the Scriptures. Let’s take a look at this question from a few different angles.

Hermeneutics is the science of biblical interpretation. One amongst many sound principles of interpretation is that we should base our view of God on the didactic (teaching) portions of scripture rather than the narrative (story) or poetic portions. This is why although the Bible says we can hide under the shadow of the Most High and under His wing find refuge, no Bible scholar expects God the Father to be a winged bird in heaven. This is obvious picture language where God uses images to speak to us highlighting the fact that just as a young bird finds refuge in the warmth and comfort of its mother’s wings, we believers can find refuge in the Lord. The Lord is our rock and fortress, but that does not mean God is a literal rock or castle; or that because the Lord is our Shepherd and the Psalmist wrote, “your rod and your staff, they comfort me” God the Father has a literal rod and shepherd’s staff that He uses with regularity in heaven. No, it is obvious picture language to describe something very meaningful about His relationship with His people, even though it is not to be viewed in wooden, literal terms.

These expressions are what we call anthropomorphic language (taken from two Greek words, “anthropos” meaning human or man and “morphos” meaning form). God communicates with us in human words or form. When you think about it, that is all God has at his disposal when revealing His truth to us because as humans we can only understand human language. Birds speak a bird language to converse with each other and so too, human beings use a human form of communication.

Likewise, when God communicates with us, He uses terms and images that are easy for us to grasp, even though if He explained them in the way He understood them, the concepts would be so far and vastly above our ability to comprehend that they would appear meaningless to us. God is infinite in knowledge and we as His creatures are finite. God has to remedy this in some way when He communicates with us so that He might provide a bridge of understanding. Just as a father smiles and engages in “baby talk” as he stands over the cot of his new born child, so God stoops to communicate with us in “baby talk” using language we can understand. Everything He communicates is true and meaningful, but expressed in terms finite minds can fathom.

All Scripture is equally inspired by God. Each passage has to be interpreted correctly and that means that even when we LITERALLY believe the Bible, we should interpret the parables as literal parables, poetry as literal poetry, the narratives as literal narratives, the historical genealogies as literal historical genealogies (rather than look for a secret hidden message) and on and on we can go.

One rule of interpretation is to build all doctrine on necessary rather than possible inferences. A necessary inference is something that is definitely taught by the text. The conclusion is unavoidable. It is necessary. A possible inference is something that could or might be true, but not something actually stated by the text. Some refer to this as the distinction between the implicit and the explicit. An implication may be drawn from the text of scripture, but we then have to ask if the implicit interpretation is a NECESSARY ONE rather than a POSSIBLE one. We can all have our theories, and we do, but a sound principle we should employ is to not teach as DOCTRINE something that is only a possible interpretation. We should build doctrine ONLY on necessary interpretation.

In practical terms, to make these kind of distinctions are often a lot harder than it might first appear because it means we have to take a step back and analyze exactly why we think a verse teaches something. In other words, it means testing our traditions and doing a lot of thinking. Yet this is something we should do constantly. Paul exhorted Timothy to “Think over what I say, for the Lord will give you understanding in everything.” (2 Tim. 2:7)

All of us should be prepared to hold up our preconceived notions to the light of Scripture to see if these assumptions are valid or not. The result of this process often involves the killing of some sacred cows, but that’s a good thing, if what we have held to be true cannot actually be supported by the biblical text. We all have our blind spots and traditions but we are not always aware of them. Therefore, the serious Bible student asks questions of himself and of the text constantly in order to determine what the sacred text actually says and then he builds his thinking on that.

Here’s one text as an example: John 20:19 says, “On the evening of that day, the first day of the week, the doors being locked where the disciples were for fear of the Jews, Jesus came and stood among them and said to them, “Peace be with you.”

Many people read this narrative passage and conclude that Jesus walked through the locked door in order to present Himself to His disciples. But does the text actually say that? No, it does not. The text might be teaching that. It is certainly a possible inference drawn from the text, but by no means a necessary one. There are other possible explanations.

Concerning this verse the ESV Study Bible says (correctly in my opinion), “Some interpreters understand the doors being locked to imply that Jesus miraculously passed through the door or the walls of the room, though the text does not explicitly say this. Since Jesus clearly had a real physical body with flesh and bones after he rose from the dead… one possibility is that the door was miraculously opened so that the physical body of Jesus could enter, which is consistent with the passage about Peter going through a locked door some time later (see Acts 12:10).”

To state the principle again: we should build all doctrine on necessary rather than possible inferences, on the explicit and not the implicit. All else is speculation.

Another rule: Interpret the unclear passages in Scripture in light of the clear. Though all Scripture is God breathed, every passage is not equally clear (easy to understand). Even the Apostle Peter struggled with Paul’s writings at times, as he found some of it “hard to understand, which the untaught and unstable distort, as they do also the rest of the Scriptures, to their own destruction.” (2 Peter 3:16)

When determining what the Bible teaches on a particular topic, find the passages which CLEARLY address the issue at hand and make this the starting point of your doctrine, rather than an obscure (or less than clear) passage. Once that which is clear is firmly grasped and understood, then proceed to study the passages which at first seem to be unclear, using the other hermeneutic rules.

In narratives, something may be implied from a story (as in the case above), but we should always ask if it is a necessary implication in the text and secondly ask if that possible interpretation is countered by something explicitly stated elsewhere in Scripture in the didactic (teaching) portions. We do this all the time naturally – which is why we dont think of God as a winged bird with feathers… why? because elsewhere (in the didactic teaching in John 4:24, God reveals Himself to be a Spirit rather than localized in one place with a physical body (He is omnipresent, etc, etc,).

This distinction I make is not mine in the way of origin. It is a carefully thought out method of interpretation employed by all sound teachers of the Bible. It is not a method of Reformed people to deny Arminians.

Of course, none of us follow our own interpretive rules consistently, which is why Christians and even scholars make mistakes, and why we dont all see things the same way. We ALL have our blind spots and traditions. Those most blinded to their traditions are those who dont believe they have any.

If there is a contradiction between two views, at least one of them is wrong.. If we could see our glaring mistakes personally, we would change our views instantly, but that is what theologians call one of the noetic effects of the Fall – we just dont think as perfectly now since the Fall of Adam… God is not confused even if we are.

When we read a biblical story, it is easy to “read into” it to interpret it in ways unintended by the author. This is why sometimes a parable only teaches one main truth and not every detail in the parable can be stretched too far.. the parable merely provides a window to reveal a certain truth – for instance, that men always ought to pray. Incorrect interpretation occurs when we view minor details in the story in the same regard as an explicit statement of doctrine. Great care is needed so that we base our belief system on what it explicitly taught by the didactic portions rather than merely perhaps implied in the narrative ones.

In reading certain narrative portions of Scripture, some have incorrectly concluded that God changes His mind. Yet the Bible is clear that not only does God not change in His essential nature (Mal. 3:6) but that He does not repent or change His mind. The Bible actually teaches this in a didactic portion. “God is not man, that he should lie, or a son of man, that he should change his mind. Has he said, and will he not do it? Or has he spoken, and will he not fulfill it?” Numbers 23:19.

For the sake of argument though, lets try to imagine God literally changing His mind. I want to explain how this concept is inseparably linked with God’s omniscience because for God to change His mind, He would need to make a decision and then be given new information He did not have before, so that He could either see the error of His ways, or choose a better course of action. It is important we see this. Continue reading