I received a response from Malcolm by way of e-mail and I replied by interspersing comments in bold type below:
Hi John, thank you for your response. I know you love us and you speak from you heart with any and all types of concerns for God’s people.
Hi Malcolm, I am so glad you caught the spirit in which I wrote. Yes.
When I first encountered God when visiting your church that experience took me way outside of the box, the church box. You preached the Gospel
Yes.. and still do today.. though I feel I have greater insights into it.. I am a Gospel preacher and seek to be nothing else.
and displayed a life encounter with God contrary to anything I had seen or experienced myself. Being under your mentorship was the beginning of God encounters, visions, a trip to heaven, open eyes into the spiritual realm and demonic encounters. I didn’t pick and choose these but they happen. God has always been careful to place people into my life to walk with me, correct me and stand with me when no one else wanted anything to do with who I was.
Yes.. these things do happen.. they have happened many times in church history as God has poured out His Spirit. Jonathan Edwards, mightily used by God in the Great Awakening here in America, write a book about such things called religious affections. He made it clear though that these experiences should not be sought. There is not one New Testament verse that tells Christians to look for trips to heaven this side of the grave. If you remember, I have never taught on such things or encouraged people to seek such things. Even though my understanding of the Scriptures has increased greatly on some things, and even though there is still limitless things I dont know, I have always sought to root people in the word of God and not experience. That was Peter’s whole point in 2 Peter 1.. The text says:
16 For we did not follow cleverly devised myths when we made known to you the power and coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, but we were eyewitnesses of his majesty. 17 For when he received honor and glory from God the Father, and the voice was borne to him by the Majestic Glory, “This is my beloved Son, with whom I am well pleased,” 18 we ourselves heard this very voice borne from heaven, for we were with him on the holy mountain. 19 And we have something more sure, the prophetic word, to which you will do well to pay attention as to a lamp shining in a dark place, until the day dawns and the morning star rises in your hearts, 20 knowing this first of all, that no prophecy of Scripture comes from someone’s own interpretation. 21 For no prophecy was ever produced by the will of man, but men spoke from God as they were carried along by the Holy Spirit.
having witnessed the transfiguration of Christ with his own eyes, something only 3 human beings ever did, on top of the mountain, he said “we have a more sure word of prophecy.” In other words, “the word of God is surer than any experience we have – even though I have had the greatest.”
When I share the Gospel with people I have the opportunity to see the majority of them receive Christ as their Savior but some do choose to say no, not now or how can you expect me to believe that?
Yes, I have always been aware of your gifting and passion as an evangelist.
I have no idea what they have been through so I know it may be hard for some to accept. When I share my encounters with people as I did in this last email I share them with believers. They don’t need to believe me or choose to accept that what I say can possibly be true just as some of the lost people don’t accept the Gospel I just shared with them but the fact remains the encounters are real and I share them as an encouragement to people. They may never have those experiences but why should I not testify about them. The testimony of Jesus is the Spirit of prophesy.
There can be a strong tendency for people to think their Christian life is sooo sub par if they dont have those experiences.. People can say “why dont I have them like Ron does?” Can you not see that? Experiences have to be tested, the word of God does not… the word of God is the diet of the Christian, all else is sinking sand. Yet the Christian who struggles sometimes to read their Bible and pray is just as loved as you.. just as cherished by the Father.. why not share your insights into His word, rather than your experiences? My mother has seen the Lord.. she could have made a movie about her experience.. she could have milked it for all it was worth – but instead she wants Christians to base their lives on the written word of God and in services here and abroad, has always just taught the word of God.
I don’t just want to lead the lost to Christ, I desire to lead those who are discouraged even as believers to a deaper relationship with Christ.
Deeper relationship – yes.. amen.. dramatic experiences – no – that is none of your or my business.. Leave that to God – our task is to preach the word.. in season and out of season..
Until God tells me different this is how I will continue to do it.
He already has said differently in the Bible Malcolm.
My story was not a Gospel presentation it was a story about Jesus sharing something of value to him with me. As for Jenn Johnson, I have not attended any of her classes that are taught at the Bethel School of Supernatual Ministry. That video was one of those classes. I don’t attend this school but I do attend this church. The teachings and the move of God durring these services remind me of a great preacher I have had the opportunity to learn under, You.
I am now at Bethel because I asked God to take me out of my comfort zone to a place I have never been before just like he did when I first encountered your church. A lot of people use to ask me about my comfort zone cause it was a place too hard for them yet it still intriqued them. That part of my life is behind me and I am reaching for more. Bethel Church doesn’t teach their people to bring the lost to church to get saved, they train them to lead the lost to Christ and then get them into a church that will minister to their own needs. I don’t see Bethel Church as a place of signs and wonders, it truely is a place that the Gospel of Jesus Christ is taught and it so happens that signs and wonders do follow, but its happening all over this nation and the lost are coming to Christ in a way I have never seen before.
I seek none of these experiences you mention.. I seek to spend time with my Lord and in His word each day and to feed the flock He has entrusted to me. All else is foolishness.
Because you have shared this with me I will be dillegent to keep my eyes and ears open to what is being preached to everyone here. You are a true friend..
I hope so – I remain very deeply concerned.
I read the two posts concerning the “Letter to a Charismatic.” I am not familiar with the church or movement referred to but only to the extent from what could be gleamed from your comments. I have visited churches that openly profess to be “seeker sensitive” in their beliefs and practices. One of the primary tenets, fundamental to the seeker sensitive church existence, is to find out what the people want in religious experiences and provide it for them. This is most troubling but even more so, directly opposed to the way of the Lord.
Exodus 32 is one of the first exposures in the Bible of the seeker sensitive philosophy and its deadly consequences. Moses has been gone for awhile and the Israelites became restless and went to Aaron with this request, “Make gods who will lead us.” Aaron capitulated to their wishes and immediately set out to procure the needed materials from which the golden calf was fashioned. In other words, Aaron discovered what the people wanted and then did what was necessary to give them what they desired. This is the seeker sensitive way.
It is important to consider what the people declared about the golden calf. ““O Israel, these are the gods who brought you out of the land of Egypt!” (verse 3) Of a truth they had been brought out of the land of Egypt. But they took this truth about the true God and applied it to a false god. What happen next is even more startling, “Aaron saw how excited the people were, so he built an altar in front of the calf. Then he announced, ‘Tomorrow will be a festival to the LORD!’ The people got up early the next morning to sacrifice burnt offerings and peace offerings.” Sacrificing burnt offerings and peace offerings on an altar is a true religious experience established by God. But when true experiences are used in conjunction with a false God they become an abomination before the Lord. Just because the name of Christ is attached to a church or loudly and often professed in its services does not mean that God is present or pleased with such goings on. Verse 6 tells us the people sat down to eat and drink and rose up to play. Many who attend these churches are good people but unable to discern what is truly going on. Just like Joshua they mistakenly believe that spiritual warfare is being noised about when, in fact, it is spiritual idolatry and adultery.
Give some serious thought to this premise. What if Aaron had just spent 40 days and 40 nights on the mountain top with God, in face to face communion, beholding his glory and hearing his commandments? Does anyone believe that Aaron, when he came down off that mountain, would have reacted in the very same manner as he does in Exodus 32:1-6 when approached by the people to make gods to lead them? Would he have given in to their request and made the golden calf and built an altar to sacrifice to that false God? Of course not! He would have reacted just like Moses did. This plainly tells me when ministers are more concerned about what the people want than what the Lord wants for his people, they are spending little or no time with the Lord but always looking for ways to please and satisfy the desires of the people. This should trouble the heart of a person who attends a church whose leadership follows the seeker sensitive philosophy.
The eventual end of such a church is what Moses observed about the Aaron and his congregation, “And when Moses saw that the people were unruly and unrestrained (for Aaron had let them get out of control, so that they were a derision and object of shame among their enemies).” (verse 25) When the desires and demands of the people are the controlling factors of a church then sooner or later it will disintegrate and be out of control. This may not be obvious to those who only see from a carnal viewpoint will be the end result in the spiritual realm where Satan works his deceptive spell.
I truly hope your good friend give close heed to what you have said to him and what is taking place at this church. He needs to seek God for a true discerning spirit.